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Thousands Of Council Homes To Get Efficient Heating Systems

Monday June 16 2014

THOUSANDS of council homes in Barnsley are to get more efficient heating systems - saving their occupants money and cutting carbon emissions.

Local contractor Kier is helping cut costs and reduce energy use for tenants by installing new heating systems.

Berneslai Homes has pledged to move towards installing air source heat pump (ASHP) systems in its 19,000 homes where gas and solid fuel systems need replacing.

Kier, which works in partnership with Berneslai Homes to deliver services to council homes, is providing MCS-accredited installation on the improvement schemes.

Pat Mollart, area regional manager at Kier, said: "Installing these systems for will help lower the cost of energy for tenants across the borough, as well as increasing sustainability and ensuring minimal energy wastage."

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Reply Posted by Gerald on Monday June 16 2014 at 15:31
At what cost per property?

What about the likes of us, not on or eligible for any form of benefit and struggling to pay the bills on two minimum wages?

Best get Mrs Gerald upstairs and pray for twins...

Reply Posted by cheryl on Monday June 16 2014 at 15:36
Looks to me that somebody on bmbc is being conned by keir. Air sourced heat pumps do not provide as good heating as gas they use electricity all day,cost £7000 to £14000 to install. Read about them on internet somebody making too much out of this from a council who have supposedly no money.

Reply Posted by barry on Monday June 16 2014 at 15:48
From the figures above this equates up to a total spend of maximum £233,000,000 for bmbc. Councillors where are you getting the money from. From the articles I've seen on internet this is not as an efficient and cost saving system that is claimed. It is also prone to high maintenance costs and does not provide instant heating as other conventional gas or electric systems. This must be money making for keir and whoever is in their pockets.

Reply Posted by barry on Monday June 16 2014 at 16:01
Sorry should be £266,000,000 maximum

Reply Posted by keith on Monday June 16 2014 at 16:57
I have this heating at the moment, its absolutely RUBBISH, comes on when it wants goes off when it wants, does not respond to programming, takes ages for heating to become lukewarm, i keep it off in this weather its not economical boil the kettle for washing up etc, its so loud keeping us awake night after night, TRY and refuse it at all costs, somebody is making money out of this, oh and you need a university degree to programme it and clearly the blokes that put it in haven,t got one

Reply Posted by Tracey on Monday June 16 2014 at 18:55
I'm having one of these units installed in September....and no we are not all on benefits, my partner works full time and I do 25-30hrs per week! They are being installed as part of the Better Homes scheme. I researched them online and found out are supposed to be rubbish. I contacted the council and told them I didn't want one but all they said is I have no choice, I have to have one. Worst thing is, I heard these units were taken out of 40 properties in Wombwell last November as residents were complaining....funnily enough the council seemed to know nothing of this LOL, even though I was told this by a council worker who fits them lmao. Not really looking forward to it as I work funny shifts and need hot water at all times of the day and night...the first time I get up at 3.30am to no hot water then they will hear about it!!

Reply Posted by Mike on Monday June 16 2014 at 19:14
Please can I have a free super efficient heating system!
Oh wait no I can't cause I'm not a dole walling scutter, I have a job, I'm not entitled to benefits of any kind because I have a job!!. You know JOB!! That's the one where you don't get a free house, free council tax, free super efficient heating, a new car every three years cause abbey lea or billy bob has got ADHD or ABS or HDTV . When will the council and govt realise that by giving people everything for free by way of benefits that no one will every get off their arses and work. While you're giving them everything for free maybe a thought should be spared for the 3rd class working families that struggle from day to day on crap wages and can't claim anything. It's a joke!! Stop the benefits make them work for it like we all have to!!!

Reply Posted by jane on Monday June 16 2014 at 19:42
stop crying " MIKE " you are making me feel down in the dumps sitting in my cosy FREE HOME all paid for by the tax payer.. pays to work you need to get a proper job you sour bitter twisted nob..

Reply Posted by kim on Monday June 16 2014 at 21:39
well said Jane - Mike should have got a good education and a good paid job and he could have afforded a nice home with a NEW BOILER. Sorry Mike but you and nobody else made you fail at school and ended up at Asos. Been annoyed at the benefit claimers isn,t the right way to go, The government has trapped you in poverty like many other.. don't worry you can always do double shifts hahahha

Reply Posted by tarzan on Monday June 16 2014 at 22:53
Yes Jane and you are wrong to be proud and braggy about sitting in a free house paid for by working people! Calling Mike a sour bitter twisted knob,whilst actually working is pretty low. Especially from a scrounging, living off the dregs of taxes and feeding your lazy belly with food paid for by others is just the biggest sorrowful joke of all. You shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you. Don't worry,the politicians are waking up to your begging.

Reply Posted by jane on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 00:12
very proud tarzan.. we are all in it together.. don't think so low paid work is for migrants,, now run along in the jungle whilst I watch my 50" tele.. hahah work for jungle bunnies.. must dash got to be up at 6 am to go to toilet,,

Reply Posted by tarzan on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 08:07
Hang your head in shame Jane.

Reply Posted by patrick on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 09:25
@ Tarzan You need to wake up and get your head from out of your @rse. The government is to blame for all the mess. You run along and be a good boy and carry on with your paper round.

Reply Posted by tarzan on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 11:01
Put what you want Patrick,I just don't know were Jane gets off,calling a guy that works and pays his taxes for her to live off a sour bitter twisted knob! Vile! I know very well the government is to blame, while I'm delivering the papers(idiot) I do actually read them too. Read her text,s again,she's a disgrace!

Reply Posted by Amy on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 11:19
Looks like tarzan is the fool on WAB. Paying taxes to keep the unemployed.. " what " about a thousand of a penny. rich pickings..

Reply Posted by Nic on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 01:06
Mike, agreed. Well said

Reply Posted by Really on Monday June 16 2014 at 19:26
There goes Mike, another sun reader expressing 'his opinion'.

Reply Posted by @jane on Monday June 16 2014 at 19:52
It's people like you that gives the Mikes of this world their ammunitition.

Reply Posted by Know your enemy on Monday June 16 2014 at 21:18
Oh dear, looks like Mike has had a long hard day at his lowly paid job. He cannot contain his seething resentment and bitterness. Unfortunately he is too stupid to aim his bile at the right targets. Poor Mike.

Reply Posted by anon on Monday June 16 2014 at 22:55
Jane's comment is actually disgusting,and why anyone is siding with her is way beyond me.

Reply Posted by Kate on Monday June 16 2014 at 23:43
My dad had this, I personally wouldn't want it. They install huge radiators that are way too big for the rooms, they only get Luke warm, I think his house feels colder. It hasn't saved him any money. They install a huge boiler (I'd have nowhere for it to go) and there is a 6ft by 3ft "fan" in a cage installed in his back garden that made an awful sound constantly.

The unit turns itself off and on when it wants, he's programmed it not to go below a certain temperature and it changes itself.

Look into it before you agree to having it.

Reply Posted by In the Know on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 12:38
The radiators are chosen because of the output calculations of the boiler, the thermal loss of each particular room and other factor's. there not too big for the room, and there not meant to get 'hot' like a traditional boiler.

Reply Posted by Liza on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 11:14
We'll said Tarzan quite right in all you say

Reply Posted by Tarzan on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 11:33
Thanks for that Liza, good to know that at least two on here are proud to have morals.

Reply Posted by In The Know on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 12:36
I love it how all of a sudden people become experts in heating system's!

the Nibe Fighter units that were fitted to the flats on Aldham house, Pearson's crescent and Simons Way cost £3,600 per unit Fitted. So a fair bit away from your £7,000 to £14,000!

They are designed to be left on all day and all night as more a climate control type of unit. This then gives you hot water stored in a very efficient cylinder 24 hours a day.

Tenants know best though, they turned them off 'to save money' blocked the exhaust vents up in each room, Used the immersion heater constantly to heat the hot water, and in return received substantial bill's.

When the flats were built they cost on average £7.40 a week to heat and have constant hot water. That was in the middle of winter too with a decent covering of snow!
Turning them off makes it all but impossible for the units to catch up and be efficient, increasing the costs and making them problematic.

How do I know all this? I specified them to be put in. I paid the electricity bills and the contractors bill's. The Flats in Wombwell Don't have Gas, it was never an option to be connected.

There's also 31 of them too, not 40! If people had used them how they were recommended they are fantastic unit's. But they don't, they simply know better and wont listen to anyone. Not Quite sure how they have been removed though, they weighed over 600kg's and were craned in before the concrete floors went on!

Reply Posted by Jason on Wednesday July 23 2014 at 21:57
If you're referring to EXHAUST air heat pumps, I disagree with you. I have a NIBE Fighter 360P. As well as 100's of others on our estate. We are fighting to get them replaced. It has been proven that these units are less efficient then gas, and even coal. Studies have shown fuel costs drop from £1000's a year to less than £500 with them out. Shame on you for specifying the worst performing heat pump on the market.

Reply Posted by 4ft11andshrinking on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 13:40
Judging by the number of fat,lazy chavs there are to be seen in this town, the word PRIDE is a much under used word....rant over from proud worker!

Reply Posted by cherl on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 14:11
In the know just look on internet the figures shown are for an average household. It also states the system is best suited to underfoor heating. Tell me how that would cost for an average house. It has also been shown on tv as been the most unsuitable system for UK properties

Reply Posted by In The Know on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 15:19
I don't need to look on the internet for the spec's and the costs! I designed the mechanical and electrical specification for these properties. The heating system is perfectly suited for UK properties, if you delve a bit deeper into the statistic's, 93% of privately owned homes that use the same system have been very satisfied with the results and cost saving's. Also the exact same specification system were installed in some eco friendly homes in Leicester that were 5 bedroom, 3 bathroom etc and coped perfectly well.

Ive been out to the tenants and visited them first hand I have heard all the excuses.... blocking the exhaust vents up because there drafty when the boiler is switched off.

a one off household job will be Vastly different to a contractor doing 20 a week of these!

Reply Posted by Ray on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 11:28
In the Know you will also know that they are not as energy efficient as a gas boiler, they are just a copout for the low carbon scam that is currently helping a lot of people get rich. I've seen these units at work and thee is no way I would have one. They are vastly more expensive than traditional gas boilers and the return is negible as its unclear how long the units last. These should be combined with another heat source and not just be the end product and should probably be used in conjuntion with underfloor heating - which again will drive the cost up. It's ridiculous to say they should never be turned off - if its warm outside we should all be turning off our heating - think of the environment. Who came up with the statistics by the way was it an independant survey or a company backed one. I agree we can't just keep burning gas however most alternative heatsources that are currently on the market are just overproced gimmicks that will not stand the test of time.

Reply Posted by Jason on Wednesday July 23 2014 at 22:05
Perfectly suited? Even the Swedes don't use these system as a primary heat source. These exhaust heat pumps rely heavily on immersion heating.
The point of a heat pump is to beat heating costs of other fuel sources. These exhaust systems have never delivered savings, it's impossible.

Reply Posted by David on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 18:59
Now I know why Barnsley is a laughing stock. You Just have to read some of these comments.

I suppose most of you worshiped Arthur Scargill aswell.

Reply Posted by Kate on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 20:12
In the know.... Like I said I personally wouldn't want one, you of corse are going to defend them of you believe in them. And designed the mechanics.

In my opinion (to which I am entitled it have!) the radiators are too big for the rooms! My dad hasn't turned his off or blocked any vents up (like I said he thinks it's brilliant) but I leave my coat on when I'm at his. It is noisy and I personally wouldn't want one,

You arnt exactly going to say if they are crap if you had something to do with the mechanics of them.

Reply Posted by in the know on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 17:14
I designed the heating and electrical systems for the flat's not the boilers them selves, there a Swedish design. Would I have one? No.
Why not? cost - its unjustifiable for me to replace our gas central heating system with a air-source heat pump. Just like it is for these Council home's. The cost far far outweighs the savings as far as im concered. If you have gas as an alternative there are much better option's available at a third of the price.

The flats in wombwell had electric heating only. There apartments with flat roof's so solar panels were not an option a system had to be designed for low income families to use daily that would be cost effective.

People that use them correctly do like them, I guess its down to own personal choice

Reply Posted by Not in the know on Thursday June 19 2014 at 00:19
In the know - Search for nibe boiler problems on the internet. You seem very defensive about the systems. Are all these other people not using them correctly?

Reply Posted by Jason on Wednesday July 23 2014 at 22:10
A study, by an independent consultant at Rodney Enviro, has shown that 50+ homes in Runcorn had NIBE exhaust air heat pumps removed and replaced with gas. On average every home now pays less that £500 a year for energy and the estate saves 60 tonnes of CO2 per year. Some of these homes used to pay £2000+ a year. WORK THAT OUT.

Reply Posted by ouch on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 20:33
Barnsley never has and never will be a "laughing stock". Can't say I ever worshipped Scargill either. Just despise Thatcher and the torys for destroying the town and leaving it to rot.

Reply Posted by David on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 07:38
Tell me ouch, what have previous Labour governments done for this town?

Did any Labour government stop the rot? As you like to put it.

Reply Posted by Ray on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 14:48
David, not a lot, but they didn't purposely destroy it either, I'm not a labourite, but what did the tories offer to Barnsley when the mass unemployment kicked in? nothing. evil Thatcher almost tore many families apart and unless you were affected you would have no idea of the hardships people went through and still do as a result of her war on "the enemy within" that woman went to her grave with a lot of blood on her hands and I only hope that as a resul of the hillsborough enquiry into south yorkshire police that more senior policemen are held accountable for their criminal actions too

Reply Posted by Brian on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 17:30
I don't agree with you that Margaret Thatcher set out to destroy Barnsley. Sadly, the majority of the pits closed much earlier than they otherwise would have done had Arthur Scargill not led the men out on strike for twelve months.

As administrators of the Borough what has the Labour council really done for the area in, say, the last fifty years? I'll tell you what; they've just about destroyed it. They have taken us to the bottom of all the league tables where we would like to be top and to the top of all the league tables where we would like to be bottom. They have created a town where there is virtually no future here for our children. To make anything for themselves all the brightest and most able youngsters have to move elsewhere. I am at a loss to understand why the majority of residents fail to see that.

Reply Posted by Fred on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 22:15
Well said Brian,

Barnsley would vote in a whippet if it stood for labour, and still blames anyone and everyone else for the continual abuse or power and systemic failings.

Reply Posted by Nix on Tuesday June 17 2014 at 21:26
Well said Tarzan .

Reply Posted by Ray on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 18:53
Brian would a Tory council have done any different? The government are obsessed with centralising everything in London and pretty much do not give 2 hoots about anywhere else. As with most former industrial towns they have all but disregarded us.

Reply Posted by Lisa on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 22:40
Well said Tarzan couldn't have put it any better .

Reply Posted by .... on Wednesday June 18 2014 at 23:15
Ha ha Dicky's back.

Reply Posted by Daz on Thursday June 19 2014 at 17:31
Typical negative comments from people who haven't got a clue. We fit these and they work if used properly in a well insulated home. Great systems.

Reply Posted by tanya on Monday June 23 2014 at 08:31
Kim..whats wrong with asos? Its a better paid job than anywhere else round here. I got good gcse's and went onto college to do childcare and i am now a qualified childcare practitioner. Asos is a great place to work and it pays the bills and rent. The reason i ended up there was because there were no childcare jobs at the time i left college but tbh i wouldn't turn back time and wait as i have met some fantastic people there. Sick of people slagging asos off..

Reply Posted by . on Wednesday June 25 2014 at 11:53
Got to admit, I didn't all like working at ASOS as it wasn't my thing, but it paid the bills whilst between jobs. Would work there again if I had to. There are some amazing people there though I will admit. :)

Reply Posted by putting it right on Friday July 11 2014 at 21:08
The Nibe systems were highlighted on Rip Off Britain or some programme like that. The units fitted in Barnsley Council Houses are certainly not Nibe systems and work in a very different way. You dont need to turn your boiler off because it works on thermostat. If its set at 16 degrees and we have a hot day then it just wont switch on. It is, as In The Know said, working more of a climate control to give a controlled and even temperature throughout the home without 'cold spots' as you get with gas heating systems. There have been some problems with units but you can get that with any new system. The fan outside is no louder than your gas boiler firing up. People expect too much in my opinion. It is a good system and if I had the money to have one installed I certainly would. They do have the potential to save lots of money if used correctly

Reply Posted by Jason on Wednesday July 23 2014 at 22:14
I think it needs to be made clear what systems are being used in this article. People seem to be debating Exhaust air heat pumps, not Air source.

Funnily enough, those of us stuck with exhaust air have confused Energy Performance Certificates, because they all claim we have Air source heating.

Reply Posted by Jason on Wednesday July 23 2014 at 22:16
Just to be clear: is it AIR SOURCE being installed here or EXHAUST AIR? The two systems are very different.

If it is Exhaust Air Heat Pumps you are getting, best of luck to you, you will see you heating bills increase without a doubt.

ipso Regulated