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Firefighters Set For Fourth Strike In A Month

Monday November 18 2013

FIREFIGHTERS are set to walk out for a fourth time in a month in an ongoing dispute over pensions.

Announcing the latest strike, the Fire Brigades Union said it was launching a further ballot on other forms of industrial action which will close on December 4.

The union fears firefighters will lose their jobs if the retirement age is raised from 55 to 60 because they may not be as fit.

Brandon Lewis, fire minister, told firefighters on Friday he had withdrawn June proposals on firefighters taking their pension before 60.

The FBU has argued firefighters are likely to experience a decline in fitness in their 50s, meaning they would be unlikely to meet the fitness standards required in the fire service and could face dismissal.

A South Yorkshire Fire and Rescue spokesman said: "We're disappointed another strike date has been announced and call on the government and the FBU to negotiate an end to this dispute as quickly as possible."

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Reply Posted by fireman sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 13:18
Goodluck and hope you get everything you are entitled to.

Reply Posted by anon on Monday November 18 2013 at 13:35
I do a lot of work at fire stations up and down the country, all firemen and women have access to a gym 7 days per week, fitness should not be an issue. Wish I could retire at 60 years of age.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 13:51
Well said anon! If they are claiming fitness is an issue then either they are too lazy or it's the wrong career choice.

Now get back to work and stop whining.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 13:56
And you will know all about it eh Richard? I doubt it.
They have negotiated it years ago,so are entitled to it. End of really.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:00
It's not end of at all now is it?

They strike, then they strike again. What they should be doing is their job....the job they are getting handsomely paid for with an early retirement age and pension...which is a lot more than many have. They should be grateful.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:10
Richard,you weren,t there,youre not there, and you do not know the details. I do. No arguement.
Firemen or not, agreements,which were battled for, believe me should be upheld no matter what. Other wise what will come next? Why bother with employment rights at all? You are too black and white,the negotiating table is there and must be used. If everyone thought as you do we would all be earning sod all, while the government off the day pilfer the petty cash again. Free fuel etc.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:21
Sam, let's assume everyone went on strike. Nurses, army, people in the care industry, police, refuse collectors.

All those careers don't have the salary or retirement age offered as good as the fire service and they aren't allowed to strike.

They chose that job, so they need to do it or find work doing something else. End of.

I pay tax, I therefore pay their wages, I am therefore their employer (in a sense) now get back to work to do what I'm paying you for!!

Reply Posted by Sal on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:30
The point is they pay 14% a month pension contributions to allow them to retire at 60. Other than the Police who else contributes the same amount a month. The main is is the Gov want to change the penson scheme for the Fire and Police service, resulting inb everyone paying in more, yet working longer and receiving less pension. Current employees of both services signed a contract for the pension scheme they are on. If the Gov introduced the new scheme for new starters their would not be an issue.

Reply Posted by christine kilkenny on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:32
Sal@ stop changing your user name.you aren't fooling anybody..Jog on wedgie

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:33
You Richard are not paying me? You and I are both paying the MP,s gas and electric bills though.You seem to think that workers should sit back and be walked on,whilst the MP,s steal,cheat and lie to get get what they want. The firemen negotiated the correct way.
In your previuos post you state that they are paid handsomely etc. Thta is because they negotiated with the government and they came to a mutual agreement. Why and how can you think that is ok? Would you just lay down and accepts it ? If your answer is yes,you are either lying or you need to fill your bag with something more meaty. You are,I have noticed,very strange. If you arn,t with the politics set,then how can you not see the injustice of a fairly negotiated deal being slashed? Its not right .

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:33
Sal, they also get a starting salary edging on £30k a year and don't work nearly as many hours. 14% is not unreasonable to retire at 60. It's not like they are living in poverty, far from it.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:39
Richard you are missing the point here. The whole package was negotiated! Its wrong to take it away. I agree with sal, a new scheme for new starters,then fair enough. Why do you not see the implications of what the governmet are doing? They are under mining the right everyman should have. Negotiation.

Reply Posted by we wont take anymore!enough is enough.. on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:56
Richard@ You can argue till your blue in the face.The facts are this was negotiated some time ago,your missing the point,It is not about them earning £30k and the hours,,The government never take a pay cut,just rob on the expensies..the governments motto,I,M ALRIGHT JACK

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:36
Sam, are you not understanding the economics of taxation and funding? Who is paying you then? Where does that money come from? Fire Service gets its money from taxation. If I pay tax then I'm paying towards the salary of fire fighters.

Reply Posted by Christine Kilkenny on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:39
Hey tricky Dickie.you been playing in the strawberry jam sticky Dickie!!

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:41
As I said,you are not paying me. What is your view on negotiation then? Ban it? or carry on and then smash it?

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:38
I did however just see on the news ANOTHER LABOUR MP Denis MacShane of Rotherham guilty of fiddling expenses. Barnsley has a Labour council, so maybe blame them for messing things up if you're so upset about the handling of govt spending.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:48
Richard, I am non political,they are mostly immoral (as far as I have seen). There is one thing that as human beings we should stand together on, and that is the right to our voices being heard, negotiating a standard of living and then trusting both partys to keep to the deal. One day you may need these things,until then you eyes,ears and mind are closed. Shame on you.

Reply Posted by Tony on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:44
Richard likes to cause an argument mostly on topics he knows little about, then loses said argument. Completely pointless

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Monday November 18 2013 at 19:48
Every time, you would have thought he would have got fed up of spewing his neo-liberal / tory bile by now wouldn't you?

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:45
Sam, look at the bigger picture. Retirement age for everyone else has been raised to 67. Nobody consulted me, but I'm not complaining, because I understand that people are living longer and putting a much bigger strain on the pension pot. If changes are not made, then when us and our children reach retirement age, they will starve because there's no money to feed us. Will we complain then too?

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:57
Thats because the terms were unnegotiable Richard. I take your point on that to be fair, but they should keep the deal and yes, start again with new employees. You know I wouldn,t mind,but the politicians are stealing and lying thier way through thier employment,all the firemen are doing is gripping to thier rights as negotiated.

Reply Posted by purple Haze on Monday November 18 2013 at 20:02
Richard do you work in the private sector? I am guessing so. You do not do a job that helps society instead you are working for your own pocket only.
So until you do work for the good of all people in this country ie police, fire, nursing etc then shut up.
The big issue here is that people like you pay no or little in pensions and certainly not 14% so you should have to work until you are decrepit and then following your retirement , die off quickly so that you are not a drain on the same society that you have ignored. Pay their wages I think not. How much do you pay in council tax? that will tell us all how much you contribute to the fire service and others.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 20:36
Purple Haze,i pay a lot of Council Tax for my 5 bed detached home in Cawthorne.Hard earned money from the Company I own.Employing over 70 staff,,

Reply Posted by sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 20:52
No negotiations there then? I too employ people and have found negotiation to be a massive part of my business,hence my staff stay for 20 yrs plus. This is why I don't understand your stance with the firemen situation. As an employer there is no way you can give your employees a pay deal and then retract it at will.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 20:59
Sam,plenty of negotiations.but when you are in a superior position.the results can only go one way.MY WAY!

Reply Posted by sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 21:15
That must be an imposter for Richard. If not god help his staff!

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 21:18
Sam,why everybody says an imposter,people don't like the truth.I speak my mind,i don't hide away from the truth,kike most on here!

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 21:21
Sam,i can do without an imposter,that would mean there would be two Richards (Dicks)on here.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 14:55
Sam, the previous Labour govt made many promises and overspent and over borrowed and crashed our economy. Recovery is now happening. That is a fact. The current coalition has generated over a million jobs, unemployment is down 1.5 million new apprenticeships, economy is gaining at a positive pace.

They have many things to fix, meanwhile Firefighters are not starving. They have secure employment with a pension. It just stinks of greed and selfishness.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Monday November 18 2013 at 19:51
Short memory Richard?

Didn't I "shoot you down" on this topic a few weeks back?
Or did you conveniently forget my "double helix" post?

Dear or dear, we've got a bloke here that forgets things, i'd go to the Docs if I were you my pedigree chum.

The TORIES stink of greed and selfishness, more like.

Reply Posted by unreal on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:01
Recovery!? the country is on its knees. The rich are gettin richer and the poor poorer, and the people have had enough

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:03
I have seen Labour MPs cut services at the same time as redecorating their offices at £10k and laying new driveways at £50k and increasing their salaries whilst laying off council services and workers. This is Labour mentality. I oppose this.

Dishonesty is rife in Labour. I'm not saying all politicians and MPs are 100% honest. They are not, but what we have is a vast improvement over what we had.

Reply Posted by ken on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:09
Richard.Some valid points,but don't you think it is about time all this expenses the MPS are claiming sould be stopped.There get a handsome salary.plenty to pay there own Rail fares,cups of coffee,chocolate bars..2nd homes etc etc

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Monday November 18 2013 at 19:53
To the Rt (Dis) Honourable Richard, (again) I refer you to my post near to the top of this page Re- Dishonest Tories.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:06
I will never understand you Richard. Why are the government wanting to destroy this deal and in doing so walk over morality and trust? We know the firemen are not starving,hells bells, but without our voices being heard and deals being broken,then to me all is lost for the common man. We should stand by the morality of it,and its not,to me about the firemen in particular,maybe you should read up on how the human race has been and still is being treated for greed. You need a few history lessons I,m afraid.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:07
@unreal seems you are living in yesteryear. We are not on our knees as you so put it. Why not compare ourselves to the rest of Europe, look at our deficit and borrowing against GDP versus others. Greece, Portugal, Italy...they are on their knees. We haven't been in recession for some considerable time now.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:13
Why then Richard are the government hell bent on screwing up these negotiated deals? What are they trying to prove then? If its so good why rock the boat for the firemen? Its a fight against human rights then,nothing to do with money. Open your eyes. And stop banging on about how bad labour are...we know! They are all the same. Why do you like them so much that you are standing thier corner? They are slapping the common man in the face, forget the fireman issue.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:25
Well Richard? Are you not gratefull for what man fought for, for the likes of you and I that will never have our voice heard. Youre attitude would have left us all in the dark ages. Accepting all the conditions of yesteryear. We are where we are today because our fore fathers negotiated and stood solid. You,to me, are a yes man.

Reply Posted by ken on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:28
sam.I am glad the firefighters are making a stand..the government will only trample all over them.stop the MPs expenses and put the money to good use instead of all the cut backs..

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Monday November 18 2013 at 19:56
Richardm tis YOU that is living in yesteryear my pedigree chum.

If you intend to post on this forum in the future then I would suggest that you get your facts correct before you do so otherwise you will end up with egg on your face again, oops too late.

George (Gideon) Osbourne has actually borrowed MORE than his Labour predecessor year on year all the time he has been in charge.

Reply Posted by Get real Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:11
@Richard,Want do you call foodbanks,if we are not on our knees.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:15
@ken I agree that expenses should be closely scrutinised and curbed. They need some allowance to function. They certainly cause embarrassment when claiming for a pond for their second homes etc, but travel is essential to their work, but they should try to claim the cheapest fares etc. I've seen a Labour MP claim for 100 yards on their mileage, whereas most would not bother getting the expense form out!

Reply Posted by ken on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:20
Richard@ you can't just blame labour.I think all parties are to Blame.Sorry but I don,t agree on expenses for travel to work.alot of professional workers have to travel miles to there work.but do not claim expenses because when there took the job,there knew what was expected.the MPS get a very good salary and all the cut back the country is having to put up with,start at the top and work the way down,instead of the poor always having to suffer!!

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:17
The food banks are there to help those most in need. The local areas of Barnsley are under a Labour run council who cannot manage the job at hand. They have been caught too many times mismanaging funds and being utterly disorganised. The country itself is not on its knees.

Reply Posted by True on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:24
Richard.But don't you think this is down to the North and South divide..

Reply Posted by yawn on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:24
Tory boys on one again oh what joy

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:26
Sam, I believe in people having a voice, I do. Sometimes we all need to look at the bigger picture. I only support politicians where I believe they are doing what's good for the majority of people. I've worked closely with councillors trying their hardest to help the people and up against bigger bullies (usually Labour dictating). Look at the "Bedroom Tax" argument, Labour harped on about how unfair it is etc. Labour actually introduced it, then last week when Labour had a chance to cull it in parliament, they had FORTY SEVEN MPs that literally couldn't be bothered to vote. It was a huge publicity stunt.

Reply Posted by Ken on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:33
Agree there Richard.Labour had the opportunity to make a stand.But sadly yellow bellied out of even every member casting a vote!

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:36
Ken, Richard is pulling the wool over your eyes. He never answers the human side of our lives.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:33
Richard you are agian banging on about the political partys. I am not interested in them. You ahve said in your post we need to look at the bigger picture,but that is just what you cant seem to be able to do. They are closing the mouths of the common man! The councillors may or may not be trying,but they are small fry within the wheels of politics. Once again ,and last word. By smashing this agreement with the firemen (as it just happens) they are gagging us all in the future, by taking away our right to negotiation. Thats the bigger picture you fail to see. I,m done, you are immoral and a dunce.

Reply Posted by Steve on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:35
I've posted before but is will do it again as this bloke makes a lot of sence:-
Why The Fire Fighters Matter
First they came for the communists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the socialists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller

(hat tip @Joncle)

About 36 hours ago now, I wrote a blog post supporting the fire fighters in their 4 hour strike over the cuts to their pensions. Up to now it’s had a little under 17000 views. Understandably, emotions ran a bit high over it and I received literally hundreds of comments and tweets on the content of the post. For you fire fighters out there, I’d say around 99% of those comments were in support.

No matter what you say, or how reasonable your logic, there will always be that small group of people who disagree. Despite the fact they were relatively small in number, the sheer volume of comments I received meant I simply couldn’t get into the argument with all of them individually.

Let me say, that I can handle disagreement. I like to have a reasoned exchange of views with people. There are always two sides to every argument and to make a valid point you’ve got to be fair to all, but these arguments were the kind that just started with an aggressive tone, and got worse as time went on.

But fear not if you took the time to wipe the rabid foam from your mouths, to compose an abusive tweet via the bashing of your gnarled, embittered digits against your phlegm speckled keyboard, rest assured that I did notice, and reply below to the common themes:-

60 year olds could keep themselves fit and pass the fitness test – of course they could. I never said they couldn’t do it. I asked you to picture a 58 year old running around with an air tank on their back, whilst dragging heavy hoses. I would agree that there are 60 years olds that could do even that, you may even know them. But I’d hazard a guess that most 60 year olds couldn’t. And for the sake of a reasonable debate; don’t reference the fitness levels of 72 year olds you know – some people know pilots that have been in space, it doesn’t mean that everyone is capable of being an astronaut. (33% of fire fighters are estimated to fail the test – which will be the older staff which means the government will steal a bigger slice of their pension pot)

Retiring on £19000 a year is a good pension – yes it is, which is why they joined it, paid their contributions and looked forward to getting it. However £19000 is the maximum they can get, if joining at 20 and working for 40 years. We won’t settle this without an honest debate, so use an honest number.

Stop using the ‘saving persons from a burning building analogy it’s their job’ – really…? If they saved you and your family from your burning building, you’d wipe yourself down say ‘well, don’t expect thanks from me – you were just doing your job’.
Well, yes they were, but it’s a kind of special job don’t you think? And it demands decent pay. Imagine the job advert in your world: “Fire Fighter’s needed. Duties occasionally include entering burning buildings, cutting people out of cars in hostile conditions and fire prevention. Salary: from just above bread line to crap, dependant on experience”.

The economic situation is all Labour’s fault – that’s a bigger argument, but I don’t really care. Labour, Conservative or Lib Dem, the representatives of the supposedly Great British Public promised those fire fighters those pensions in exchange for work and contributions. They gave the work and the money, now give them the pensions you promised.

I’d love to get such a high pension – WELL WHY DIDN’T YOU BECOME A FIRE FIGHTER THEN?!?!? this is the only argument that simply fills me with utter rage. Each and every one of those fire fighters had to apply for those jobs. If you wanted that pension, or their wages, why didn’t you get the job yourself? Or any one of the other public sector jobs that have a good pension attached? The fact that you have a terrible pension is not an argument to reduce somebody else’s. As I said before it’s the very worst characteristics of being British – the petty small minded, jealous mind-set that just can’t stand to see someone else do better. And don’t forget one of the reasons they have a better pension than you is because they pay more into it than you do.

You missed out the armed forces, the nurses, etc etc – yes I did. I did so because I have limited time on my hands and I can’t get into each one. The fact is that the entire public sector is being screwed over.

I understand that we’ve got to cut costs and it’s got to be quick and radical, but it’s got to be fair.

It’s not fair to say to those soldiers, go to Afghanistan and protect the country, but you might be made redundant in a few years, and we don’t have any harriers to protect you with, or even an aircraft carrier to launch them from.

It’s not fair to say to a nurse, tend my wounds, dodge the angry drunk in A&E, clean the corridors and solve MRSA and take the blame for every mis-step caused by stupid government targets, but don’t expect the pay rise we promised you next year.

It’s not fair to say to teachers, put up with threats from pupils and parents, get our school into the top of the exam league tables, meet our targets and take the blame for not spotting child abuse, but don’t expect the pension we promised.

I missed out the forces and nurses, and all the other public sector workers, because my last post was for the public sector in it’s entirety. I mentioned the Fire fighters because they were getting a kicking by dishonest people who are supposed to support them. I’m no supporter of socialism, read the rest of my blog to see that, I’m no supporter of conservatism either. What I do support is the concept of fairness.

Fair is a word that has become increasingly warped over the years in the UK. So let me bend it back into shape. If you pay for something, you should get it. There should be no question about it. You could change the pension scheme for new entrants, that would be fair. You could reduce the salary scales for new entrants too, that would be fair. You could hold a referendum asking if the public would be prepared to have poorer public services in exchange for a drop in taxes, that would also be fair.

What is not fair, is promising a certain pension and wage, in exchange for performing their duties at a very high level of competence, and then when they do so, refuse to give them the pension and wage that was promised.

That’s why I support the fire fighters, and all the public services and in fact anyone screwed out of their pension in the public OR private sectors. They’re just asking for what you promised them. Not a penny more, nor a penny less. They did their bit, now you do yours. Don’t dip out on your commitments just because it’s convenient. Because if you abandon your commitment to fairness, then you won’t be able to argue when the government treats you unfairly.
The beard

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:46
Halllleyflippingloooola!!!! Im in it with you Steve. I can settle down now. You have said it all.

Reply Posted by Ken on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:50
Makes a lot of sense..Steve

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Monday November 18 2013 at 20:19
Totally and utterly agree steve.

Take no notice if Richard, he is a neo-liberal / tory propagandist / fantasist who cannot argue a good point and fails miserably on every post he puts on this forum.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:37
Sam, you really need to look at your grammar more closely before labelling anybody a 'dunce'.

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:40
Nit picking Richard. It may be because I am quite angry and the last thing on my mind is my grammar.

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:40
Ken, if you believe I'm trying to pull the wool over your eyes, please do your own research. What I reported is fact.

Reply Posted by Tony on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:46
Like I said never wins an argument.Forgot to mention, then resorts to pulling up people over grammar

Reply Posted by Sam on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:51
Hey Tony! Thats made me laugh. After all my good intentions and now you tell me its a waste of time. I need to sit a little,Im blue in the face. Haha

Reply Posted by Richard on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:51
Thanks for your contribution Tony. The debate continues, as it is neither won or lost. We are all entitled to opinion and I've made mine clear.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Monday November 18 2013 at 20:00
Has NEVER won ANY argument whilst I have been on here, doesn't know his arse from his elbow and can NOT back any of his arguments up with hard facts, a typical neo-liberal / tory pony.

Reply Posted by yawn on Monday November 18 2013 at 15:59
@richard,you lost the debate by not answering sams post at 15.25.

Reply Posted by ++++++ on Monday November 18 2013 at 21:12
I'd say this is a fake Richard now Sam

Reply Posted by Richard on Tuesday November 19 2013 at 00:23
Oh dear, the imposters are back. The obvious sign of the imposter is the lack of correct grammar and spelling.

Steveo, seriously? So many posts yet nothing proper to say. I noted that you got it wrong about your comment about the BBC, shame. Shouting about winning and not actually winning, is not a victory. You're looking silly.

As for you saying daft things like 'playing with the big boys' etc. you've lost all credibility now and you appear juvenile.

@ purple haze, you've made sweeping assumptions about me. You know nothing about me and I am simply not going to disclose my personal circumstances on a public forum. You say I don't pay their wages? How could you possibly come to that conclusion? Who do you think pays their wages? How would you know I have no direct links to public sector workers? You don't. Until you know facts, you have little right to tell me to shut up.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Tuesday November 19 2013 at 06:53
Which part about the bbc are you on about?
It is well documented on various "activist" sites that the Tories told the BBC they were not allowed to film the union led bedroom tax protest in Manchester due to "security" issues .
It is also well documented that the Tories actively supress information to the masses unless it is particularly flattering to their right wing fascist agenda.

You cannot take constructive criticism and always slag Labour off but, alas, we never hear you talking negatively about the Tories or Lib Dems?

In fact in one of your recent posts you were banging on about all the "good" things that the "coalition" have done.

Begs the question though...

What coalition?

There is only a "coalition" on paper, a "coalition" that was not elected by the UK populous.

Clegg and co are mere Tory Ponies and will be cast into fourth division obscurity at the next general election.

Reply Posted by Richard on Tuesday November 19 2013 at 00:29
@Steveo you say I can't back up ANY of my arguments with hard facts? Silly person.

My last posts related to 47 Labour MPs failing to vote against Bedroom Tax. This essentially meant Labour lost the vote for this very reason. What hard facts do you want on that?

The information is public, read it yourself.

Labour harped on about the 'cruel and unfair tax' yet 20% of the entire party didn't vote against it. What hard facts are missing?

The hard facts were missing from the WAB news article! I brought the hard facts to the table. You brought incorrect information in a sloppy attempt at an argument.

Reply Posted by Richard on Tuesday November 19 2013 at 09:56
Haha now you're harping on about the 'bedroom tax' and lack of coverage like Labour actually wanted to abolish it?! They did not. That is obvious by the complete lack of support in their own voting.

Labour had no intention of culling the 'Bedroom Tax' they broadly embarrassed themselves on that and have shown their true colours. Labour are a disgrace and only pretend to care.

I slag Labour off (and justifiably so), because they are running the local council and running it very badly. Day after day I read poor decisions they make, mismanage spending and basically make a pigs ear out of it. The dishonesty is rife within Labour and it's showing through and I find the ignorance of the people still supporting Labour despite all their failings quite worrying.

WAB seems to be a Labour supporter and it's clearly only giving a one sided message to folk. Someone has to bring some truth to these stories, I'm just doing my bit.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 12:54
Richard, you do have a selective memory, on many posts I have actually AGREED with you with regard to BMBC.

Again, you only seem to show the dishonesty of the Labour MP's even though in a post a put on further up the page shows the Tories have been at it too.

This is just the tip of the iceberg too, if I was to really research Tory dishonesty then this page would be full.

However, while I have 2 mins spare, Ian Duncan Smith (Who was born George Smith but changed it to IDS as plain old George Smith didn't sound Tory enough)
Are you sitting comfortably?
Then I shall begin...

LIED about the "degree" he got at a Uni in Italy.
LIED about his army ranking.
LIED about the unemployment figures
LIED to the UK parliament
LIED to the UK populous
LIED about the amount of people who got back to work via the workfare scheme
LIED about his privileged background to further his political career
LIED to the commons select committee about bullying a former aide
LIED about expenses for underpants (this is no joke btw!)
LIED about being able to live on £58 a week
LIED about how many people were back in work despite of the benefit cap
LIED about child poverty being higher under Labour
LIED to the parliamentary ombudsman who brought him to book over his made up statistics

Is currently know as I D S ( Ians Dodgy Stats)

Never before in the history of British politics has anyone been so Dishonest and told so many outright lies, but alas is still allowed to keep his position of power and influence in the political spectrum.

Reply Posted by Dez on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 12:30
In fairness to Richard he is one of the main reasons I like to skim through this site.

I've never known anyone write as much short sited/non factual guff in my life.

Reply Posted by sid on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 14:04
No Dez, he does post fact sometimes,most of which we already know. The trouble with Richard is,he has no human side and no reasoning within his own mind. He has tunnel vision,and that,for my money is his downfall. Most people will see that both party's are doing wrong,both are screwing the system,yet he can only spout on about labour. The reason he does this is because he thinks everyone is true labour,when in fact I would hazard a guess that most folk don't give a jot. The trust has gone. The thing is,he exactly how he thinks we are,but he fly's the blue flag.

Reply Posted by Richard on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 14:21
Very wrong Sid,I for one can see the Tories are trying to get the Country out of all the crap Labour left us with.you have your say Sid and I will also have my say,you don't like it well don't read it.

Reply Posted by sid on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 14:30
No Richard,I do like to read it,well not always, but your posts are informative. The thing I don't like is that you seem always to be tunnel vision on it all. I wonder if all the corruption you post about the labour party, are you as well versed on the corruption of the others? Do you reason with yourself and try to see any of it from both point of views? I certainly do, that's the real debate after all. The rest is arguing in some sense. I have never seen you accept any part of another posters side yet?

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 15:21
Again I refer you to my "double helix" post a month or so ago whereby I provided you with detailed statistical analysis which disproved your "myth" that the Tories are trying to "mend the country that they inherited from Labour" crap.

Reply Posted by Dez on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 13:11
Top stuff STEVEO! As usual.

...and waits for Richard to defend IDS's character and credibility...

Reply Posted by Lyndon on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 13:45
You haven't a prayer with this one Steveo old pal, he's incapable of taking his blue blinkers off for any moment.He churns it out like some tory robot.He defends Cameron and the rest of them,trys telling everyone what a great job they're doing then won't even admit to being a tory!

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 15:23
Lyndon, and that is why I will reply to each and every one of Richards posts and provide statistical analysis to prove that he is wrong on everything that he posts.

Reply Posted by Dez on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 14:40
Trying to get us out of debt by increasing borrowing, cutting essential services and battering the most needy in society with the nasty stick??? Yeah, right Richard. Great help they are...

The fact they'll chase discrepancies in the welfare budget to the tune of 1.2 billion (which do need sorting) but won't touch the 22 billion plus corporations are squirelling away overseas etc...

Yeah, they're a real help Richard.

Reply Posted by Lyndon on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 15:13
They are doing a cracking job those tories, 2013 and we have food banks Pensioners dying in their own homes they can't afford heat, that is the reality. They harp on about benefit fraud aided and abetted by their gutter press, which the gullible actually believe. It is a drop in the ocean compared to the billions in tax evasion by the big companys. Then we have the bankers, yes the same bankers that got us in this mess. Still paying themselves billions in bonus's. making billions in profit. While announcing the cuts they said "we are all in it together". I fear not

Reply Posted by Richard on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 16:32
Oh dear, once again someone using my name in a thread and pretending to be me.

Steveo, you're not always correct, just like your tosh about BBC supporting Tories!

Has it escaped your minds that Labour are £1.5m in debt to the Co Operative bank...the same bank pledging donations of £50k to Labour...the same bank as corrupt as they come, the same bank having a CEO crackhead who is best mates with Ed Miliband? This is current news....yours isn't.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 16:46
Oh dear, AGAIN I refer you to the statistical analysis I provided you with previously with regard to "airtime" that the Tories receive in comparison to Labour.

So Labour have links to a CEO Crackhead former minister, so what?
Small potatoes compared to the following naughty Tories:

Tory Party General election candidate, Michael Powell - Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.

. Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) Roger Talboys - Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on children.

. Tory Party Vice-Chairman of Welsh Conservatives, Andrew Baker - Received a banning order for stalking women.

. Tory Party MP (Billericay) Harvey Proctor - Stood trial for sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and was forced to resign.

. Tory Party Councillor ( Stratford-upon-Avon ) Christopher Pilkington - Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.

. Tory Party councillor ( Coventry ), Peter Stidworthy - Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.

. Tory Party Mayor ( North Tyneside ), Chris Morgan - Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.

. Tory Party MEP, Tom Spencer - Caught smuggling drugs and porn through customs.

. Tory Party councillor and former Mayor (Wrexham), Michael Morris - Convicted and put on probation for 2 years, for the indecent assault of another man, which was captured on CCTV.

. Tory Party Liaison Manager on the London Assembly, Douglas Campbell, who’s job includes running the Tory GLA website - Arrested for allegedly downloading child porn. He is currently suspended while the Police investigation continues.

Again, merely a tip of the iceberg, need any more info or stats then you know where to find me.


Reply Posted by Richard on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 16:35
@ Steveo you say I'm wrong on EVERY ONE of my post??

Care to elaborate on my post I made about 47 Labour MPs failing to vote against 'Bedroom tax'? Nope didn't think you'd comment on that.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 16:48
I am not in the slightest bit interested in who did or did not vote against the bedroom tax.

Nor do I have any vested interest in anything to do with the Labour party, over to you my pedigree chum.

Reply Posted by Richard on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 16:41
@sid well Sid, if you read all my posts you will see that I commented about expense fraud etc and stated that regardless of which party, they should all be named and shamed. I'm all for the good of things but for some considerable time I have seen Labour make a mess of things and more specifically, the local Labour council. This is why Barnsley is in a mess, but it seems many are blinkered purely because their grandparents voted Labour, so they do, it's a tradition. It's time for a change. I want what is best for the future, unfortunately, Labour can't deliver what we all need.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 17:14
AND the TORY /LIB DEM Coalition can?

10,000+ deaths attributed to Atos and DWP Welfare reform.
Unemployment UP - Despite IDS "dodgy" statistics
net immigration UP - Despite the Tories saying it would be tens of thousands
Food banks growing at an exponential rate
Tax cuts for the rich
The Red Cross distributing food to the needy for the first time since the second world war
The bedroom tax
Benefit sanctions and targets despite the Tories telling us there are no targets
Tax avoidance UP to the highest level EVER in the UK
Selling off the Post Office at a massively undervalued AND ensuring the taxpayer still has the Royal Mail pension liabilities to pay for many generations to come
Proposals for adding VAT to food and children's clothes
Cosying up to Iran a sworn enemy of the UK.
STILL want to sell off the East Coast mainline despite the line running at a massive profit to the taxpayer.
Privatisation of the NHS

Again, a tip of the iceberg...

The Tories, The party for the rich who couldn't give a toss about the poor.

Reply Posted by Richard on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 17:02
@steveo it's great that you have these details about Tory councillors, it really is and you are right to bring this info forwards, as it's important to know who best to trust (difficult I know).

The vote regarding 'Bedroom Tax' is important, as it shows where our MPs are supporting in direct relation to the exact message they are trying to convey.

Quite why you push this info about Tories, when it's more to do with who is running the local council is a mystery to me, particularly when I myself am not a Tory supporter.

Reply Posted by STEVEO on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 17:15
I can do the Lib Dems if you want.....

Reply Posted by Dez on Wednesday November 20 2013 at 19:04
Go on then Richy. Get your teeth round that one.

Reply Posted by Del on Saturday November 23 2013 at 08:30
Good god, I can't be bothered to read through all that loads of crap, honestly I think most of you have lost the plot and need to get out more!!.
Bringing it back to the point!.
Firefighter earn every single one of their penny's!, I can't understand what they aren't in double their wage. They risk their own lives everyday to save others it's a very risky job and they are all local heros, but that's just my opinion!.
Good on them for standing up to the government, and fighting for something they have already been promised

Reply Posted by LOL on Saturday November 23 2013 at 09:00